Obama Blasts McCain’s Brains: “He Just Doesn’t Know.”
Denver – Good afternoon, everybody! More pontificating is happening in the wild and wacky world of the 2008 Presidential Elections! Barack Obama was back on the war-path today, speaking out against John McCain. “He just doesn’t know,” said Obama at a rally earlier today in regards to McCain’s proposed health care proposals.
Here is what I read – and I do not read too much (I am part-time illiterate):
McCain: I want every family in America to have $5,000 to spend on health insurance!
Obama: I want every child in America to have child insurance!
McCain: No, you do not!
Obama: Yes, I do, old man!
McCain: I do not see you!
Obama: Right. You are color-blind.
Paotie: HaHa! He’s just messin’ with all ya’ll.
Evidently, the key issue is “deregulation.” McCain wants more deregulation; Obama wants more governmental oversight.
Kinda like the old Miller Lite commercials, ‘member?
TASTES GREAT! LESS FILLING!
In the end, the product we’re gonna get from either Obama or McCain will be like that – cheap, urine-colored American beer. Better than getting drunk on cough syrup, I s’pose.
Ick.
Laters ..
Paotie
Sphere: Related Content
Oh gosh.
Trust me, Paotie….. No one wants tax credit.
The lower class and the middle class DO NOT have money to get insurance in the first place so that tax credit is NULL.
Stupid plan!
You have to find 5K first, and wait till you file your tax to get that credit. Com’on, who’s gonna be able to do that? Not the majority of Americans!
Bad plan.
Who’s color blind?
Um, Candy, definie “middle class” for us.
Remember this health care issue got kicked around during the Clinton administration and Congress wrung its hands over it and finally gave up on it? Here we go again, and Congress is sure to wrangle with it and…oh, well.
Mike, I’d like hear your version of “middle class” if you don’t mind.
My definition is that (well, I realized I was generalizing), they’re not RICH nor are they POOR. Ok, you have a middle class that consist half of the whole population. The other half would be 1/4 RICH and 1/4 would be POOR. The middle class has it’s own sections. You have the upper middle class, who probably would be able to find 5K and then you have the middle middle class and the lower middle class that would more likely have a hard time finding 5K or even wanting to use that money for health care.
Federal employees have one of the greatest health insurance plans available to them. They pay a part of their premiums and it can run up to 5K a year, but it gets taken out of their paycheck which most will choose not to see it just like our taxes and other stuffs being taken out of our pay.
For many, they just don’t have that option. If there was a program where they have option to pay into premiums based on their ability to pay and have it taken out of their paychecks, then…perhaps it’ll work. And for those that do not work, they should stick to medicaid or medicare.
See, we’re in a world of shit here. Many people are without heath insurance and it’s really gotten to a point where many are relying on government anyways such as state program which gets its funding from the Federal Government.
Ann_C, it was all politics. I know it got messy.
Look at Canada, they have a pretty good health care system that is available to all of their citizens.
Germany has an awesome health care system too, and not only that!!! You’re stress out? Hey, go to a spa resort and come back to work in a month or so at their governments expense.
Wow, I wouldn’t mind living in Germany.
There has to be something that will work for America. Not tax credits.
Candy ..
So you’re basically saying that there is an appearance of a fourth class of American society? Traditionally, it was:
Lower
Middle
Upper
And if I understood your comment, you’re suggesting there’s a new class and order:
Low
Middle-Lower
Middle-Middle
Upper
But what if it’s really:
Low
Low-Middle
Low-Upper
Middle-Low
Middle
Middle-Upper
Upper-Low
Upper-Middle
Upper-Uppity
WOW! That’s a whole lotta classes goin’ on! But the way the federal government works .. I s’pose anything is possible.
Seriously though, you’re right about the tax credits. Kinda pointless to give a tax credit if someone cannot afford it to begin with.
Paotie
Still, too general, Candy. Compared to other countries our “poor” people are much, much better off and they would consider them as “rich” people in their eyes.
I need dollar figures.
Paotie, it’s one of the many options to choose a health insurance program. There is a health savings account, there is John McCain’s, there is Medicare and Medicaid (lots of waste and abuse), there privatized health care, government sponsored health care (i.e. govt employees get discouont health insurance, etc), and so on. It’s about providing more options…not less. Obama wants a govt controlled health care system. We already know that Medicare and Medicaid are fraught with abuses and waste.
McConnell ..
You said: “Obama wants a govt controlled health care system. We already know that Medicare and Medicaid are fraught with abuses and waste.”
If Medicare and Medicaid are fraught with abuses and waste, then we’d need oversight and possibly a more controlled health care system?
Actually, I tend to align my views closer to yours on the issue of health care, in part because I do not want to see the U.S. evolve into a U.S. of France – a socialist state.
But, Medicaid and Medicare serve a rational purpose in my eyes, so I guess I am somewhere between you and Candy on the issue of national health care.
Paotie
Candy wrote a great article at her blog, titled “Palin and the ‘Mean Girl’ Syndrome” – good stuffs!
Check it out.
Paotie
There is a whole lotta classes out there….
I was specifically saying there’s
Low
Low Middle
Middle Middle
Upper Middle
Upper
However your what if’s sounds plausible.
I do agree, that we run the risk of being a socialist. But, something has to be done where everyone has health insurance and that everyone pays their share based on their income.
Mike, I know there’s a lot of people outside of America that are so poor, it’s unbelievable. We’re not as poor as they. But, I’m not talking about them. I’m talking about America.
So, you want dollar figure?
It’s online.
I’ll look it up for you. Give me time? And maybe by then, you’ll beat me to it?
Candy ..
The Pew web site says that 53% of Americans think they are middle class. And that 40% of Americans with incomes less than $20,000 define themselves as “middle class.”
Also – roughly 50% of Hispanics, African-Americans and Whites identify themselves as “middle-class.”
Paotie
Ok…
Lower Middle class would be anywhere from $35K to $75K
Upper Middle class would be 100K and above
(See, that’s interesting cuz I would put those with 100K and above to be “Rich” while those that are 75K-100K to be upper middle class.)
Interestingly there is a Capitalist Class which consists of only 1% of the population and they have income of 500K or more…
Then, there’s the Working Class, Working Poor and finally…
the Under Class.
There have been more than one different studies or research (whatever they are) over the years…different people interpreting it differently.
Just because two families have the same incomes, does not necessarily put them both in the same class. There’s other consideration such as family size and whatever….
Am I getting paid for this Mike?
Nice, though people still fail to see why so many people all of a sudden support the McCain – Palin ticket. But why? It’s because of Palin. Not McCain but Palin. People are actually voting for Palin rather than McCain. And they see her as an opportunity to help her put through the White House and someday become the first woman Commander-in-Chief in 4 or 8 years from now. I am voting for Palin rather than McCain per se. McCain is good (although I’d be holding my nose voting for him) but with Palin, it becomes a shot in the arm, breath of fresh air and opportunity because she represents the kind of Conservative ideals that many people believe in.
Why do you think when Palin did her speech at the RNC that night the tv rating on number of viewers almost matched (a hair’s breadth) that of Obama’s acceptance speech that day at Invesco Stadium? It’s because it charged up the conservative base. It charged up women everywhere. It charged up those who felt spurned by Obama for not vetting Hillary and not choose her to be the veep (not saying that she would accept it). And angry at Obama’s habit of putting women down? Did you know that the head of the Democratic National Committee has never been a woman? Or that money donated to the Women’s Leadership Fund is funneled into the Obama Victory Fund? It’s been 24 years since the last woman veep candidate and Obama had that opportunity to do that again. He didn’t. He chose Biden.
Name a woman vice president candidate who have fought against the good old boy network. Fought against corrupt oil companies. Fought against the Republican party and passed a state-wide ethics reform bill. Reduced state’s spending. Increased the state’s surplus. Increase energy domestic supplies to the United States by building the first trans-Canada natural gas pipeline from Alaska to Canada and eventually to Chicago that will transport trillion cubic feet of natural gas. A pipeline effort that was stalled and stymied for 35 years but will start building this January 2009. Name a person who was committed to increase our energy independence. What has Obama done on the scale and level to ensure change?
He hasn’t.
He talks about it.
But if you look at his records such as the housing development it is in shambles all across Illinois by which he has ignored the pleas of his own people to fix them up. He hasn’t.
How come there are less women in higher position on Obama’s Senate staff team than men? How come those women get’s paid less than men while McCain’s own Senate staff there are more women in higher position than men and that women get’s paid higher than men?
Here’s an article for you Candy. I think you might like it.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/29/a-feminist-voting-republican/
Germany sure have the fanta-stic health care system. If you want to live in Germany, as long as they have the Declaration of Independence just like in the USA. Number Uno, we want to live in the Freedom world, not the communism world.
What are the negative in Germany?
Can someone write a poem to rib McCain and his Brains?
No. You’re get paid by learning these things.
So, now when it comes to “middle class” definition, why should family size matters? Maybe a family of 5, the middle lower class would be more than $75k ? Are you saying that those middle lower class making less than $75k with a family of 5 cannot afford health insurance?
Paotie, Ahh kind of flunky eh? I guess one defines onself base on comfort level financially?
In that website you provide also showed median household income, by income group…for 2006 it showed Upper: $128K Middle: $63K and Lower: 25K
I got my information from Wikipedia which included information on classes by several reearchers..way down further in that page….
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class
McConnell & Candy ..
The article Mac reference was good reading. Nice.
The only issue I have with the overall article is the end, where he states:
“There is no next time. There is only this time. Reinforcing abuse only perpetuates abuse. In any abusive relationship, you have to leave to get respect. Abusers are often charming and apologetic and hold out the hope of better behavior. But there is no then, there is only now.”
Sounds rather dreadfully fatalistic. A bit paranoid, too.
Hillary wasn’t abused. She CHOOSE to run. The party fell in love with Obama – maybe because Hillary comes across as a not-very-nice-woman.
Kind of sad to compare politics to abusive relationships – it does nothing but demean, diminish and normalize abusive relationships.
Politics as usual. Unfortunately.
Paotie
Paotie, only because you’re on *this* side of the gender fence and not the other way around.
“After the Democratic Primary, I was personally in contact with a member of Obama’s Finance Committee. He left several messages on my office phone, “urging” me to support Senator Obama. We had numerous contentious conversations and I finally told him I would be happy to vote for Senator Obama and rally other Hillary supporters to vote for Obama but in return I wanted Obama to pledge gender parity in the cabinet.
I foolishly thought equal representation in government was a reasonable request. “What if there aren’t qualified women you still expect us to appoint half women to the cabinet?” he replied. I was confused. “There are 300 mill ion people in this country; you’re telling me you can’t find ten qualified women?” He responded, “You can’t have that.” We had no further conversations. There was nothing more to say.
Weeks later I approached a training session for DNC canvassers at a park in my neighborhood. Eager to practice their new skills, they all ran up to me, “Do you support Senator Obama? Do you want to donate money to the DNC?” After explaining that I was a Hillary supporter, I again made my request. I will support Senator Obama if he will pick a woman as his running mate and promise gender parity in the cabinet. The men in the group openly laughed at me and found my request ridiculous. I looked at the horrified faces of the newly minted female canvassers. “They’re laughing at you too,” I muttered.”
From that same woman and website.
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/09/23/the-x-factor/
Yep, nice read. Hmm I think I’m gonna take a while to mentally digest that article. Thanks Mike.
Words, I mean to get the point across, one would use something that affects a lot of women….abuse. Nice. And I mean it in a sarcastic way.
I did wanted Hillary to be on the ticket too. I think she’s got what it takes. I couldn’t understand how Obama won over her. Well, I was avoiding politics in the beginning.
Ha! I love to hate politics. Tried to stay away from it too.
Tell me, anybody, why do you think I like Gov. Palin? What are the reasons?
“Are you saying that those middle lower class making less than $75k with a family of 5 cannot afford health insurance?”
Yes.
Maybe not family of five with 75K per year, but definitely a family of 5 with only 55K a year.
Especially in our current economic mess.
Many of my kids friends family are without health insurance. Most of them are paying mortage, car payment, and they don’t have any health insurance. These are families that are considered “middle class.”
I dunno, maybe a lot of people need to take budget 101.
Candy, you’re quite wrong on that aspect. I am that family of 5 (3 girls and two female cats) who easily afforded health insurance for the last 12 to 14 years, even while I was a grad student.
Are you married, Candy? Have kids? I’m the only working man in this house. Believe me, insurance is affordable. Even when I was making half what I was making 9 years ago with a family of 5.
It is definitely budgeting. And you don’t really sacrifice much of your standard of living anyway.
LOL Yeah, same here…married, except I have more boys than girls and two cats…one flew the nest. And, ten years ago I was making half of what I do now and I could afford it too.
See, there are some of us who pay only part of the premiums and the employer pays the rest. When you have something like that taken out each pay, then, yah it is affordable. We’re talking about people making as much and their employer either do not contribute or do not even offer any health insurance. They’re not going to have 5K available right that second. Also, 5K will not cover the full premiums for a family of 5. I think the real average would be 12K or more.
I mean, let’s face it there are certain employers in this country that offer the best health insurance and I’m guessing we’re the lucky ones. But, there are many that are not.
But are you the only wage earner in the family?
Again, it all boils down to affordable choices which is why we need health care reform and not total govt control of health care. Imagine the cost alone. Fraud and waste are rampant in the Medicare and Medicaid field. My mother was in the health insurance industry before she retired a few years back and she tells me of these stories about HMO, PPO, Medicare, and Medicaid stories that most of us don’t see happening. Govt in health care is simply just not an efficient thing to do. Look at Canada and Europe. It’s a socialism nightmare.
McConnell ..
That is exactly my fear: the national health care system eventually evolving into a socialist state. I do not want more governmental interference with our lives, and there is already LOTS.
And you like Palin because you are a hard-core! Republican!
Hard-core!
I’m just messin’ with ya.
Paotie
Pretty much so.
I agree, about HMO, Medicaid and Medicare…
But, what’s wrong with PPO?
I dunno, I mean it sounds like Germany has one of the coolest health care system. They say France has the best in the world. So…how is it a socialist nightmare? What’s wrong with Canada’s?
Ok..I’m reading up on Socialist health care horrors. Wow.
I don’t know what to think other than, there has to be something in place that will work and ensures every American can afford it.
Candy, Clinton tried that during his 8 years in office. If we tried to socialize health care to each and every one of us, we’d be bankrupt right now. Or see very high taxes like in Europe. Which why people in Canada go across the border to get needed and immediate health care in the United States. You literally have to pick a number and wait your turn. Healthcare and Medicaid constitute almost 25% of the entire Federal budget.
Click here.
PPO is a Preferred Provider Organization, similar to HMO. I have PPO. There are some choices in the PPO but limiting and does not address so much on preventive care which is key on preventing more expensive health care cost down the road.
France? Read here.
There’s a caveat. It may sound good, but….it eventually catchs up to you and the govt.
“So far France has been able to hold down the burden on patients through a combination of price controls and increased government spending, but the latter effort has led to higher taxes for both employers and workers. In 1990, 7% of health-care expenditures were financed out of general revenue taxes, and the rest came from mandatory payroll taxes. By 2003, the general revenue figure had grown to 40%, and it’s still not enough. The French national insurance system has been running constant deficits since 1985 and has ballooned to $13.5 billion.”
Cool read….
Well the French health system doesn’t seem too bad. The commenters at that site are positive too. Apparently one of them doesn’t think the tax is a lot, compared to the USA.
I’m outta here…Watching the loveable losers…..hoping for a miracle….
If you’re self-employed and lucky enough to get individual health insurance thru a PPO and live in a major city, you’d be looking at a $2500 deductible per adult, extra if there are children under 18, plus over $900/mo. premium for a couple in their 40′s, NOT including kids.
Add it up for a DINK couple in their 40′s: $5,000 has to be in a separate bank account to cover the full deductible for both persons should such a scenario arise, in case no medical expenses are drawn before an emergency, then $10,800/yr for health insurance premiums. This just health insurance costs, aside from any medical costs or co-pays. To the tune of $15,800/yr.
Outrageous, you bet.
I know this scenario and it’s outrageous, because the insurance companies keep hiking up the premiums and the deductibles.
And mind you, I’m about as middle class as you can get. The middle class is getting squeezed out of health care choices like a tourniquet squeezing blood out of a turnip.
Which is why I am seriously considering a medical savings account type of approach through Golden Rule Insurance Co. There is no single solution that solves every health issues in America which is why a govt approach or single payer system will simply not work nor give us the many options we need based on a variety of factors. I’d rather have control of my medical expense account and prefer to pay out of my own pocket the lower medical costs but keep the insurance for the more serious and catastrophic events. Why pay $6000 a year when we only attend, as a family, our doctors several times a year? I’d rather pay the lower premium and a higher deductible than the other way around.
http://www.goldenrule.com/health/health-savings.shtml
http://www.hsacenter.com/
TALK IS CHEAP … CHECK OBAMA’S RECORD !!!
A candidate’s track record, and associations are always a legitimate issue when running for President. Let’s take a look at the qualifications, judgement, and experience of Obama, who is running for President. Obama had 25 years to fulfill the potential he displayed as a rising start at Harvard Law School … and, how did he live up to that potential? … He chose to align himself with anti-American racist, Jeremiah Wright for TWENTY YEARS … along with Ferrahkan, Rezko, Ayers, and others. As a community organizer, he registered thousands of voters in Chicago … then, when he ran for the state legislature, he took away their votes, by disqualifying his opponent (a black woman) on a technicality. As a U.S. Senator, he voted present 160 times … he never called a meeting on the Afghanistan committee he chaired (although he NOW says we must shift all our military from Iraq to Afghanistan). He claimed Foreign Policy experience from a 9 day whirlwind photo op to 6 countries. And, he spent almost half of his tenure neglecting his responsibilities as a U.S. Senator, so he could run for President. Senator McCain served America honorably for 22 years in the military. He proved his love for America, as well as his honor, integrity and character, by refusing early release as a P.O.W., even while being tortured. He served America as a ‘contributing’ U.S. Senator, working across the aisle, for 20 years. If Obama’s Twentyfive year track record shows he lacks judgement, and can’t be trusted, who cares what he says about Health Care and the Economy! What Obama never learned is Character. He simply can’t be trusted … ask Jeremiah Wright, a friend of 20 years, who Obama betrayed for personal ambition … and, you Obama supporters really think he won’t betray you If he gets elected??? If he gets elected, you Obama supporters will be facing a HUGE disillusionment !!!
McConnell,
I checked out the link to GoldenRule Insurance. Read the fine print… “rates are subject to change”. That’s something EVERY health insurance company includes on their policies and PR, and they don’t impose any time limits or spending cap per year on that one little phrase. That’s a floozy legal phrase, beware.
People have been taken in by health insurance companies who point to that one little phrase that gets overlooked on the contract, and when problems arise about insurance costs, the consumer ends up holding the bag. It happens every time, trust me, after being self-employed and running a small business, health insurance companies are the ones mining it for all it’s worth.
BTW, the deductible of $5,000 for a DINK couple living in a major city that I quoted earlier IS on the HIGH deductible-end in order for the couple to keep down premium costs. In some places, Mac, insurance companies think $900/couple/per month premium is LOW. *roll of eyes*